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02/05/2002 Entry: "The Audio Gods Speak!"

I was going to post this as a reply to a comment. But instead, I think everyone should see it, ant that way everyone could help me out. Post your advice for me:

"Oh, great audio master! Thank you for offering to help! Please if you would--what is the least expensive receiver you can find that has a phono stage, 2 tape loops, and a Dolby Digital Laserdisc RF decoder? I can't seem to find any for less than $2500. But I know with your superior audio wisdom, you'll be able to find something to suit my needs."

Would you do the same for speakers, too? Spend $3000, and get me 5 speakers and a sub with a significant improvment over my Definitive Technology BP-20s, BP-1 surrounds, C-1 center, and ProSub 80. What do you think would be the best for my needs--good sound for movies, but good sound for music is more important. (Note: BP-20s are no longer made. The BP-30s are the same speaker but with an aluminum tweeter. To be honest, I prefer the fabric dome in my 20s.)

Incidently, the Audio Review ratings for BP-20s are rated 4.4 out of 5, and my H/K AVR-55 got a 4.31 out of 5.

Posted by Your Folks @ 02/06/2002 07:14 AM EST

That's my whole point, Dad. If I'm going to upgrade my speakers, my feelings are I'm going to need 3-4K to upgrade to something meaningful. I don't have that kind of coin, so it will be a while before I upgrade. Thus, the ceiling.

Posted by B.R. @ 02/06/2002 08:24 AM EST

I said what I said and it was wrong or it was taken wrong and now it has turned into all this. It is true though. Perhaps more for England that for here.

Maybe I am misreading this response to my post from before however I was simply saying that there is a whole world of cool stuff you can upgrade to if you want and it certainly doesn't take 3 or 4k to do it. That is just nuts. Upgrade isn't always about price and there is lots of gear in the same range as your speakers price that as good and perhaps better. After all technology doesn't stand still and they are making improvements all the time. The internet allows us to find really wonderful stuff at very good prices. In terms of your receiver there is always going to separates to achieve what you want to do. It isn't $2000 upgrade or nothing.

At any rate I am not going to argue with you. I thought it would be cool to start a dialog over here about audio but your response says to me that I just offended you. Very sorry and I will go back to my board where I belong. No harm intended. I am sure you didn't mean any harm either.

Posted by Jim @ 02/06/2002 02:09 PM EST

Butch up, Jimmy. Help me out here. Pick me some seperates that will do what I need. What's the price tag? Can I afford it? Probably not. That, to my mind, is a ceiling.

Speakers. Same thing. Pick me 5 speakers and a sub that will be better than what I have now. How much are they? $400? Great, I'll take them! I've seen speaker systems for $1,000 by some good companies. Are they going to touch what I have now? I doubt it.

I'm ready for a dialogue. Throw out some names and prices. What do you recommend? How much is it?

I pulled this to the main page not because I was offended. Instead, I wanted to start a dialogue that was a little more out front, so other hi-fi friends we have could shout out suggestions as well.

Posted by B.R. @ 02/06/2002 05:23 PM EST

My thought was that if you applied some of the research time you spend on drums and such now back into audio you would find there are deals to be had. Especially in the "used rack" world.

You seem resigned to that idea when you say "probably not". So don't believe it if you don't want to. It is no skin off my nose. If I see something and it shouts Bill I will definately mention it to you however you seem to feel that for the money you have spent on your gear there is no better to be had anywhere. That is where I disagree. I think it is great that you have found brands you like but don't become a prisoner to them.

In the end it is your money and if you feel there is nothing better for the money then what you already have then that is great. I feel there is always an upgrade path and always small steps one can take and you certainly don't have to go drop 3 or 4k to do it. That is all I have to say.

Posted by Jim @ 02/07/2002 08:13 AM EST

Can you say B&W?........I knew you could!!!! OR with all of the money you save at Northern Kingdom you could buy some of these http://www.martinlogan.com/statement_speaker.html

Admin: Hi, toneless, and welcome to my board. In the future, you need to either leave a) your real name, or b) your email address. Now, about B&W... Great speakers. Jim owns a pair. Good stuff. Now, check out the specs on the speakers I already own. Which B&Ws would you think comapre most closely to what I already own? How much are they? Thanks.

Posted by Toneless @ 02/08/2002 08:36 AM EST

Jim, sometimes you can be a total blockhead.

"You seem to feel that for the money you have spent on your gear there is no better to be had anywhere." No where did I say that. No where. You won't find it. I freely admit it. For the same price point, there are speakers out there that probably blow mine away. What was that price point? About $1500. I don't have that kind of money to spend today!!! See! It's a ceiling. If I want something better than what I have, I'm not going to be able to pick it up at Best Buy for $400. See! That's my point.

Change the argument to what you want to hear. In your mind I'm saying Defintive is the best, or H/K is the best. I'm not saying that!!! I'm saying that in order to get better than what I have, it will cost more money than I have at my disposal! Is that so hard to figure out!

That's why I'm not looking at hifi stuff the way I used to. I don't have the money needed to make the next step up. And, when you posted about a " world of great audio
product reasonably priced that isn't named HK or Definative," I asked you for some suggestions. Name one receiver with a Dolby Digital RF decoder it. Name one, and post the price here. Where's my receiver upgrade path?

You won't find one.

Posted by B.R. @ 02/08/2002 08:40 AM EST

First off Toneless Bill should buy what makes him happy. Not what I have.

Secondly yes I am a blockhead and I should have learned by now that NOBODY ever agrees with me and any time I make a suggestion it just comes across as me trying to act superior or better than other people. That is unfortunate because I am not a prideful person at all at my core. I am just a normal guy who tries his best to live in God's will and I don't think I am better than anyone. If I did I wouldn't go down to MOM's 4 nights a week and clean toilets, floors and clean up trashy messes. Enough of that rant.

This post went totally in the wrong direction and I am sorry if it offended anyone. I was just saying I feel Bill could make some upgrades if he wanted to and I still feel that way. He said find him a receiver that does all that he wants and I suggested separates to do what he wants. That opens up the field again. So that question was answered. In terms of speakers I say start listening to some. One might be surprised that one might find something less expensive that sounds appealing. That is how the audio world is. Maybe I am wrong but I am getting this vibe that you feel you will have to spend a significant amount to equal or better what you have and I just don't think you do but hey that is just my opinion.

Instead of continuing to argue this when there is no agreement here let's just agree to disagree and move on. Have a good weekend. It is great having a day off. Getting so much done I need to get done and doing some good listening which I haven't had time to do in a while.

Posted by Jim @ 02/08/2002 01:27 PM EST

Jim....Babe.....I have a COMPLETE B&W system.....So I am making a recommendation based on MY personal experience. I had ZERO knowledge of what you have for gear.....so I was making no reference to Billy buying what YOU have. For all I know you are a Velodyne guy....or someone who would use Adcom, NAD, or Denon. You should step up and get Marc Levinson amp or Meridian stuff.....Then and only then can you speak to the High priest of "Tonelessness!!!"
Be well ;-)

Posted by Toneless @ 02/09/2002 02:03 PM EST